Quick Thought About the Z5upra

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 06/04/2016 at 12:09 • Filed to: Speculations

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So we know BMW and Toyota are working on a sportscar together. For awhile reports flipflopped between BMW working with Toyota or Lexus on this car. Currently reports seem to be cementing that the prototype above will be a BMW Z4 successor in convertible form and a Toyota Supra revival in coupe form. Now let’s get into my thoughts.

Lexus needs a convertible. I strongly believe they are going to revive the SC nameplate to sit between the RC and LC as a convertible only model. Now personally, I don’t see any reason to spend the cash on developing roadsters (ie Crossfire-SLK, So in my head, it goes something like this:

Toyota Supra
Coupe only, manual and automatic transmission options.
No AWD availability.
$55k.

BMW Z5
Soft top convertible only, manual transmission and DCT options.
RWD and AWD availability.
$49k.

Lexus SC
Hardtop convertible only, automatic transmission only.
RWD and AWD availability.
Hybrid vairant availability (SC 500h).
$52k.

All of them are using the same BMW driveline, so a turbocharged inline six is expected across the board. However, due to Lexus and Toyota being so heavy on the reliability and ease of ownership end, I think the drivetrain is going to be similar to Nissan’s VR30 and be in different “forms” such as in the Q50 3.0t Sport and Red Sport. So something like this now:

B58B30M0 - 310-330 hp and 300-330 lb-ft.
- Not available in the Supra.
- Available in Z5 sDrive30i and xDrive30i
- Available in Lexus SC 300t

B58B30O0 - 335-360 hp and 350-375 lb-ft.
- Not available in the Supra.
- Available in Z5 sDrive40i and xDrive40i.
- Available in SC 400t and SC 500h.

B58B30T0 - 376-420 hp and 380-410 lb-ft
- Available in the Supra.
- Available in Z5 sDrive50i and xDrive50i
- Not available in SC.

* I know there are a ton of BMW enthusiasts here that can better speculate on the engine that would be used, the designation, and the performance aspects.

Even if the specs were similar or even the same, I think the Lexus and Toyota’s would have some pretty different engine characteristics and some part changes. Altogether, you get lineups like this:

2018 Lexus SC 300t and 300t AWD (Hardtop Convertible)
- 8AT
- 310hp and 310 lb-ft
- Starts at $52k

2018 Lexus SC 400t, 400t AWD, and 500h (Hardtop Convertible)
- 10AT
- 335 hp and 350 lb-ft
- Starts at $58k

2018 BMW Z5 sDrive30i and xDrive30i (Softtop Convertible)
- 6MT, 8DCT
- 315 hp and 320 lb-ft
- Starts at $49k

2018 BMW Z5 sDrive40i and xDrive40i (Softtop Convertible)
- 6MT, 8DCT
- 345 hp and 350 lb-ft
- Starts at $56k

2018 Toyota Supra GT (Coupe)
- 6MT, 8AT
- 376 hp and 380 lb-ft
- Starts at $55k.

2018 Toyota Supra GT-S (Coupe)
- 6MT, 10AT
-410 hp and 400 lb-ft
- Starts at $61k.

Those are my thoughts. I didn’t dive into the usual market research I usually do, but made sense off the top of my head. By the way, they are still saying we will be seeing a BMW and Lexus partnership for a midengined sportscar. If it’s FMR then I guess it would be a kind of M1/LFA successor. If M and F are working on it, then I’m sure it will be a BAMF hybrid no matter what.

TheHondaBro > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 12:17

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Lexus is going to make another IS C. That's their convertible right there.

Leadbull > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 12:22

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I really wish BMW had given the slightest shit about the e89. It's such a good looking car, but alas, no e89 Z4M and no e89 Z4 Coupe.

Wobbles the Mind > TheHondaBro 06/04/2016 at 12:32

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Really?! I’m surprised to hear they would continue that nameplate, but it would make sense for a lower price point. It just seemed like Lexus was going up market on the next convertible due to the LF-C2 concept. Considering the market, it seemed like it would be a $47k vehicle no matter what, meaning in order of starting price point Lexus’ lineup would go: NX, IS, ES, RC, RX, GS, [IS-C], GX, LS, LX, LC.

Just really confusing to have an IS be a 4-door, an RC be a 2-door, then have a convertible styled after the RC to be a 2-door IS-C. That’s an extremely BMW method...*bingo*

Wheelerguy > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 12:38

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Supra being more expensive than Z5 or SC is... controversial?

Wheelerguy > Leadbull 06/04/2016 at 12:40

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That’s what I’ve been saying. At least legitimize the Z4 GT3/Z4 GTLM’s roots with a Z4 M GTS road car.

Wobbles the Mind > Leadbull 06/04/2016 at 12:45

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In their defense, when you have 1/2/3/4-series coupes there isn’t much need for a Z4 coupe. Then when you make high performance convertible versions of those same models (which are all better sportscars, better known, and better sellers), then you don’t have any reason to make a Z4M.

Maybe this round though if they don’t make an M2 Convertible.

LongbowMkII > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 12:46

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I can't see the z5 being less than 50k. I see it as a 6series vert replacement.

Wobbles the Mind > Wheelerguy 06/04/2016 at 12:47

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I just don’t think a brand new Supra should be much cheaper than a 20+ year old version.

Wobbles the Mind > LongbowMkII 06/04/2016 at 12:54

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I don’t think it will have much in it at that price point, but the softtop should be cheaper than a hardtop. I can’t see a reason to replace the 6-Series Convertible since it covers a broad range from E-Class to Maserati GranTurismo to S-Class with the M6 (or rather an Alpina).

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 13:00

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I don’t see a new Supra being less than $70 because they’re talking way too much about AWD hybrid setups. Probably V6 instead of I6, so no fucking point.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 13:02

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Copying ze Germans but doing it right has been their MO since day one.

Milky > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 13:15

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But thats just it, a Z4M would be a better sports car.

Even with a folding metal roof it weighs the same as the M2 but would have better engine placement, lower center of gravity, etc. So as Leadbull was saying a Z4M coupe would be killer.

LongbowMkII > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 13:36

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I see it starting at closer to 70 for that reason. If the next 6 series is going to downsize to fight the 911 I could see a z5 upsizing to fill that role.

190octane > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 14:34

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Like I’ve said many times, if the Supra doesn’t differ too much from the FT-1 prototype and it comes in under $75k, I know what my next car will be. Hell, if it’s over $75k I might just sell a kidney or something and still get it.

Alex Zapata > Wobbles the Mind 06/04/2016 at 15:38

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The Z4 is gonna be hard top, almost 100%, the same as the current one and it’s closest competitor which is the SLK (SLC).

More likely than not there is a clause in the association that will prohibit Toyota to compete with the Z4 with its own car so I would guess that the Supra will be cheaper and there will not be a Lexus version.

Also don’t expect the Supra to be crazy fast, my guess is the Z4 will have the new 40 engine in it and at least one 4-pot, the Supra probably will get the naturally aspirated version, or the older 35 spec of the BMW engine with 300 HP.